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	<title>Comments on: LOCOG: Greenwich Park &#8220;most suitable and cost effective venue for the Equestrian Events&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/</link>
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		<title>By: Indigo</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13913</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13913</guid>
		<description>no2010.com is the Vancouver equivalent of nogoe2012.com

Similar hubris and &quot;follow the money&quot; - this time it is the indigenous people being rolled over (their native leaders having been nobbled, first, just as our stakeholder &quot;leaders&quot; were) - way over budget - crackdown on homeless - additional CCTV cameras - military anti-terrorism measures include a sort of dirigible parked above the Olympic village - in other news, &quot;The Norwegian Star&quot; that was to serve as a floating hotel  has just sunk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no2010.com is the Vancouver equivalent of nogoe2012.com</p>
<p>Similar hubris and &#8220;follow the money&#8221; &#8211; this time it is the indigenous people being rolled over (their native leaders having been nobbled, first, just as our stakeholder &#8220;leaders&#8221; were) &#8211; way over budget &#8211; crackdown on homeless &#8211; additional CCTV cameras &#8211; military anti-terrorism measures include a sort of dirigible parked above the Olympic village &#8211; in other news, &#8220;The Norwegian Star&#8221; that was to serve as a floating hotel  has just sunk.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Goldman</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13911</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13911</guid>
		<description>In answer to Blissett&#039;s last points: the decision to use Greenwich Park was fundamentally flawed and LOCOG have been landed with the unenviable task of justifying it and implementing it.  I personally have never questioned LOCOG&#039;s goodwill though I strongly support all NOGOE&#039;s arguments against the planning application.

I think it is true to say that many of those who were involved in the initial bid did not think that it would be successful and so were less than scrupulous in framing it: when London beat Paris, contrary to expectations, the result was that they have been hung with their own petard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In answer to Blissett&#8217;s last points: the decision to use Greenwich Park was fundamentally flawed and LOCOG have been landed with the unenviable task of justifying it and implementing it.  I personally have never questioned LOCOG&#8217;s goodwill though I strongly support all NOGOE&#8217;s arguments against the planning application.</p>
<p>I think it is true to say that many of those who were involved in the initial bid did not think that it would be successful and so were less than scrupulous in framing it: when London beat Paris, contrary to expectations, the result was that they have been hung with their own petard.</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13899</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13899</guid>
		<description>PLJAIKJ, 4 February 2010 6:54 pm, beat me to it.

LOCOG, stop being so mendacious.

Honesty, professionalism, integrity - give it a try, why don&#039;t you?  Why are you at LOCOG running scared of the IOC?  Yes, they are probably the most unaccountable organisation in the world but what&#039;s the worst they can do to you?

Blisset is being very naive, in my view, in underestimating the size of the egos running LOCOG and the IOC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PLJAIKJ, 4 February 2010 6:54 pm, beat me to it.</p>
<p>LOCOG, stop being so mendacious.</p>
<p>Honesty, professionalism, integrity &#8211; give it a try, why don&#8217;t you?  Why are you at LOCOG running scared of the IOC?  Yes, they are probably the most unaccountable organisation in the world but what&#8217;s the worst they can do to you?</p>
<p>Blisset is being very naive, in my view, in underestimating the size of the egos running LOCOG and the IOC.</p>
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		<title>By: Clare Fawdry</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13869</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare Fawdry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13869</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t this getting over complicated now? Granting planning permission for something because there is allegedly nowhere else for it is not a legitimate planning reason. Chucking it out because it breaches numerous planning policies as set out in the UdP Is. Job done, I&quot;d say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t this getting over complicated now? Granting planning permission for something because there is allegedly nowhere else for it is not a legitimate planning reason. Chucking it out because it breaches numerous planning policies as set out in the UdP Is. Job done, I&#8221;d say.</p>
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		<title>By: Blissett</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13862</link>
		<dc:creator>Blissett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13862</guid>
		<description>A few thoughts:

1)  The document you link to is certainly not a comprehensive cost--benefit analysis as you claim. And I can&#039;t find any reference to a £50m benefit to hosting the events in Windsor in this or the other supporting documents. Could you detail where that figure comes from?

2) Considering that document was produced in part by a gentleman who appears to have worked for KPMG, I&#039;m surprised and disappointed at the poor quality of some of the analysis. Assumptions used by LOCOG are dismissed as unrealistic based on, at best, anecdotal evidence and invalid comparisons against other events, and at worst, no more evidence than &quot;we don&#039;t agree&quot;. In addition, many clearly irrelevant factors are incorporated. Much is made of threats to local business from sponsorship deals for example. It is suggested that vats swathes of Greenwich will have it&#039;s shop fronts covered up for the course of the Games. Not only is there not evidence to suggest that LOCOG has any such plans but more importantly, even if they do, it is an irrelevance in any comparative analysis against alternative sites. Unless NOGOE are suggesting that this policy would be applied to Greenwich but not to Windsor, any subsequent costs would occur regardless of venue. But of course, the NIMBYs don&#039;t care about Windsor shopkeepers do we? 

3) I find it amusing that NOGOE&#039;s supporters are simultaneously arguing that LOCOG&#039;s financials are optimistic and they&#039;ll never sell the number of tickets they suggest (page 9 of the document linked by Indigo) and also that local people won&#039;t be able to get tickets for the events that they are giving up their park for. Which is it? If LOCOGs estimates are exaggerated then surely there&#039;ll be plenty of tickets left for us locals?

5) Finally, I find the tone of some of the arguments on these pages immensely frustrating. It is perfectly reasonable to have concerns about the plans, question them and, if necessary, oppose them entirely. Personally, I&#039;m still concerned about some significant elements. But some people seem to believe that there is some sinister master plan to force through an event that the organiser&#039;s know will be a disaster for local people, the economy and the environment. You&#039;d think that there was some Bond villain sat at LOCOGs headquarters, stroking a white cat and laughing at the good folk of Greenwich. Seriously, can anyone provide a reasonable explanation as to why LOCOG would be going ahead with this plan unless they honestly thought it was going to be a success? What&#039;s in it for them? Is it really that hard to believe that the people at LOCOG have the best intentions? YOu may not agree with them, but to suggest that they are deliberately trying to screw us over is extremely unfair and damaging to the credibility of the cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few thoughts:</p>
<p>1)  The document you link to is certainly not a comprehensive cost&#8211;benefit analysis as you claim. And I can&#8217;t find any reference to a £50m benefit to hosting the events in Windsor in this or the other supporting documents. Could you detail where that figure comes from?</p>
<p>2) Considering that document was produced in part by a gentleman who appears to have worked for KPMG, I&#8217;m surprised and disappointed at the poor quality of some of the analysis. Assumptions used by LOCOG are dismissed as unrealistic based on, at best, anecdotal evidence and invalid comparisons against other events, and at worst, no more evidence than &#8220;we don&#8217;t agree&#8221;. In addition, many clearly irrelevant factors are incorporated. Much is made of threats to local business from sponsorship deals for example. It is suggested that vats swathes of Greenwich will have it&#8217;s shop fronts covered up for the course of the Games. Not only is there not evidence to suggest that LOCOG has any such plans but more importantly, even if they do, it is an irrelevance in any comparative analysis against alternative sites. Unless NOGOE are suggesting that this policy would be applied to Greenwich but not to Windsor, any subsequent costs would occur regardless of venue. But of course, the NIMBYs don&#8217;t care about Windsor shopkeepers do we? </p>
<p>3) I find it amusing that NOGOE&#8217;s supporters are simultaneously arguing that LOCOG&#8217;s financials are optimistic and they&#8217;ll never sell the number of tickets they suggest (page 9 of the document linked by Indigo) and also that local people won&#8217;t be able to get tickets for the events that they are giving up their park for. Which is it? If LOCOGs estimates are exaggerated then surely there&#8217;ll be plenty of tickets left for us locals?</p>
<p>5) Finally, I find the tone of some of the arguments on these pages immensely frustrating. It is perfectly reasonable to have concerns about the plans, question them and, if necessary, oppose them entirely. Personally, I&#8217;m still concerned about some significant elements. But some people seem to believe that there is some sinister master plan to force through an event that the organiser&#8217;s know will be a disaster for local people, the economy and the environment. You&#8217;d think that there was some Bond villain sat at LOCOGs headquarters, stroking a white cat and laughing at the good folk of Greenwich. Seriously, can anyone provide a reasonable explanation as to why LOCOG would be going ahead with this plan unless they honestly thought it was going to be a success? What&#8217;s in it for them? Is it really that hard to believe that the people at LOCOG have the best intentions? YOu may not agree with them, but to suggest that they are deliberately trying to screw us over is extremely unfair and damaging to the credibility of the cause.</p>
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		<title>By: PLJAIKJ</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13848</link>
		<dc:creator>PLJAIKJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13848</guid>
		<description>LOCOG maintain they did a proper evaluation of alternative venues but the “evaluation by equestrian experts” involved a mere one-hour each visit to established equestrian sites. Windsor was considered but not actually visited, according to the original BEF evaluation, so it is misleading to say evaluations were made at the time. Certainly, as determined by a request under FOI, there was no cost-benefit analysis done against comparative sites. No responsible or accountable private company would make multi-million pound financial decisions on such flimsy evidence as: close to Olympic Village and iconic status.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOCOG maintain they did a proper evaluation of alternative venues but the “evaluation by equestrian experts” involved a mere one-hour each visit to established equestrian sites. Windsor was considered but not actually visited, according to the original BEF evaluation, so it is misleading to say evaluations were made at the time. Certainly, as determined by a request under FOI, there was no cost-benefit analysis done against comparative sites. No responsible or accountable private company would make multi-million pound financial decisions on such flimsy evidence as: close to Olympic Village and iconic status.</p>
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		<title>By: Clare Fawdry</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13719</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare Fawdry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13719</guid>
		<description>I also forgot wonder what sort of message LOCOG  thinks its trying to put across by saying Greenwich is the only cost-effective venue that can hosts the equestrian Olympics.  What sort of budget do they think events like Badminton, Hickstead  etc etc  work on?  Equestrian sport isn&#039;t nearly as rich as people think.  Did LOCOG ever ask these existing venue providers for some advice on costs. I bet they didn&#039;t - the truth wouldn&#039;t suit their agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also forgot wonder what sort of message LOCOG  thinks its trying to put across by saying Greenwich is the only cost-effective venue that can hosts the equestrian Olympics.  What sort of budget do they think events like Badminton, Hickstead  etc etc  work on?  Equestrian sport isn&#8217;t nearly as rich as people think.  Did LOCOG ever ask these existing venue providers for some advice on costs. I bet they didn&#8217;t &#8211; the truth wouldn&#8217;t suit their agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: Clare Fawdry</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13717</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare Fawdry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13717</guid>
		<description>Its absolutely right that riders did not like the going at Windsor. It was always poor, because little was done to cordon off the area and stop the deer poaching the ground which was never rolled it. it was like riding on cobble stones. What  riders would have liked was for Windsor&#039;s cross-country course to have even half the amount of money that is being spent on Greenwich&#039;s cross-country track lavished on improving its existing course, which would then be used in perpetuity.   The bottom line is that £40  million is beiong thrown away on temporary facilities when a fraction of it could have improved Windsor and Hickstead.  
Having a public transport-orientated  equestrian spectator Games seems a pretty poor trade-off for the amount of traffic movements that will have to ship all this stuff into Greenwich.
You really do have to wonder if LOCOG ever join up the dots before they put  out all this contradictorry bumpf.
In quoting Tim Stockdale LOCOG also misleads. Tim is a top show jumper, which is an arena-based sport.  He is not a cross-country rider and would not know what is involved in organising this discipline. Asking him to comment on Greenwich&#039;s suitability for cross-country is about as relevant as asking  Roger Federer to assess the suitabilty of  Wimbledon Common for rugby.  It doesn&#039;t follow that because both sports involve the use of balls, experts in one  will know what the other requires. Its the same with horse sport. At these  top levels,  dressage, show jumping and three-day eventing  take place in diferent places (apart from Olympic and world championships) and  involve only a handful of cross-over personnel.
The only three-day event rider who has spoken out in favour of Greenwich is Lucy Weigersma who attended  the same stage-managed media  visit as Tim Stockdale.   In independent comments to the media,  to date three cross- country  riders have expressed  misgivings in the media about Greenwich - Zara Phillips (the world champion, no legacy), Clayton Frederwicks (the world silver medallist, no legacy) and Andrew Nicholson who has ridden in innumerable Olympics and world championships (concerns about  portable fences).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its absolutely right that riders did not like the going at Windsor. It was always poor, because little was done to cordon off the area and stop the deer poaching the ground which was never rolled it. it was like riding on cobble stones. What  riders would have liked was for Windsor&#8217;s cross-country course to have even half the amount of money that is being spent on Greenwich&#8217;s cross-country track lavished on improving its existing course, which would then be used in perpetuity.   The bottom line is that £40  million is beiong thrown away on temporary facilities when a fraction of it could have improved Windsor and Hickstead.<br />
Having a public transport-orientated  equestrian spectator Games seems a pretty poor trade-off for the amount of traffic movements that will have to ship all this stuff into Greenwich.<br />
You really do have to wonder if LOCOG ever join up the dots before they put  out all this contradictorry bumpf.<br />
In quoting Tim Stockdale LOCOG also misleads. Tim is a top show jumper, which is an arena-based sport.  He is not a cross-country rider and would not know what is involved in organising this discipline. Asking him to comment on Greenwich&#8217;s suitability for cross-country is about as relevant as asking  Roger Federer to assess the suitabilty of  Wimbledon Common for rugby.  It doesn&#8217;t follow that because both sports involve the use of balls, experts in one  will know what the other requires. Its the same with horse sport. At these  top levels,  dressage, show jumping and three-day eventing  take place in diferent places (apart from Olympic and world championships) and  involve only a handful of cross-over personnel.<br />
The only three-day event rider who has spoken out in favour of Greenwich is Lucy Weigersma who attended  the same stage-managed media  visit as Tim Stockdale.   In independent comments to the media,  to date three cross- country  riders have expressed  misgivings in the media about Greenwich &#8211; Zara Phillips (the world champion, no legacy), Clayton Frederwicks (the world silver medallist, no legacy) and Andrew Nicholson who has ridden in innumerable Olympics and world championships (concerns about  portable fences).</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13701</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13701</guid>
		<description>MartyMC: no, you will only be able to &quot;pre-register&quot; your interest in buying a ticket: you will be asked to state which of the 26 sports you want to attend and when. Those providing information are not guaranteed tickets, as these will be allocated by ballot, and there will be no preferential treatment for Londoners -

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23797325-request-tickets-for-2012-olympics-online-within-weeks.do</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MartyMC: no, you will only be able to &#8220;pre-register&#8221; your interest in buying a ticket: you will be asked to state which of the 26 sports you want to attend and when. Those providing information are not guaranteed tickets, as these will be allocated by ballot, and there will be no preferential treatment for Londoners -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23797325-request-tickets-for-2012-olympics-online-within-weeks.do" rel="nofollow">http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23797325-request-tickets-for-2012-olympics-online-within-weeks.do</a></p>
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		<title>By: MartyMC</title>
		<link>http://www.greenwich.co.uk/news/02705-locog-greenwich-park-most-suitable-and-cost-effective-venue-for-the-equestrian-events/comment-page-1/#comment-13692</link>
		<dc:creator>MartyMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greenwich.co.uk/?p=2705#comment-13692</guid>
		<description>The tickets will go onsale in 2011: 

http://www.london2012.com/visiting/tickets/index.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tickets will go onsale in 2011: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.london2012.com/visiting/tickets/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.london2012.com/visiting/tickets/index.php</a></p>
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